Hail!!!I open this thread to deepen with the followers of Sanatana Dharma the strong links, or rather the identity among the 'Greek' God Dionysos and the 'Indian' God Shiva.As someone wrote:Rudra is Apollo, the Sun.I request you humbly not to mis-represent me. I did not say that Rudra is only Apollo but I said that Rudra-Shiva is both Apollo and Dionysius, as per Satarudriya. Morever, my main objection is to your series of unsubstantiated statements ' Rudra is Dionysius' and then 'It's 'Dionysus versus the Crucified, the Ubermensch versus the 'Last Man'. '.Can you show reference for your above statement from any valid scripture? (Be brief)OmLast edited by atanu; 23 December 2008 at 06:08 AM.
But we should remember that such comparisons are at best extrapolations, often bordering on odiousness and absurdity, because a very vital element is missing in the assembled portraits of the Greek, Roman or other gods: mysticism.Well,I strongly advice not to make judgments and interpretations so hasty about things that one do not know completly.The word 'Mysticism' is derived from the Greek language, so to say that in the Greek religion does not exist mysticism is something incredible. There was the Mysteries of Dionysos, the Mysteries of Eleusis, the Mysteries of Samothrace, etc.etc.etc. The Greek Religion is par excellence a mystical religion.Dionysos had Mysteries associated with him, and 'mystai' who sought initiation into a special relationship with the God.Marvin W.
Meyer describes the Hellenistic mysteries as follows, 'They were secret religious groups composed of individuals who decided, through personal choice, to be initiated into the profound realities of one deity or another. Unlike the official religions, in which a person was expected to show outward, public allegiance to the local gods of the polis or state, the mysteries emphasized an inwardness and privacy of worship within closed groups.' (The Ancient Mysteries: A Sourcebook, pg. 4)The term 'initiation' comes from the Latin word initiare, which is a late Hellenistic translation of the Greek verb myein, whence our word mystery comes from. The main Greek term for initiation, myesis, is also derived from the verb myein, which means 'to close.' It refers to the closing of the eyes which was possibly symbolic of entering into darkness prior to reemerging and receiving light and to the closing the lips which was possibly a reference to the vow of silence taken by all initiates.
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Another Greek term for initiation was telete. In his Immortality of the Soul Plutarch writes that 'the soul at the moment of death, goes through the same experiences as those who are initiated into the great mysteries. The word and the act are similar: we say telentai 'to die' and telestai 'to be initiated'.Dionysos was the Mystery-God par excellence in Greece. Not only did he have mysteries of his own, but he was a central figure in the Eleusinian Mysteries, as well as said to have been the founder and prophet of those belonging to the Magna Mater Kybele or Rhea.Proclus wrote that, 'The teletai cause sympathy of the souls with the ritual in a way that is unintelligible to us, and divine, so that some of the initiands are stricken with panic, being filled with divine awe; others assimilate themselves to the holy symbols, leave their own identity, become at home with the Gods, and experience divine possession.' Apuleius, an initiate in these mysteries, describes his experience as follows:'I approached the confines of death.
I trod the threshold of Proserpine; and borne through the elements I returned. At midnight I saw the Sun shining in all his glory. I approached the Gods below and the Gods above, and I stood beside them, and I worshipped them.' (Metamorphoses, 11.23)Tyrannos.
Dionysos was not part of the twelve Olympian Gods and Goddesses of Greek Mythology. He was a late entrant, with different sources as to his origin.No. Dionysos is one of the twelve Olympian Gods.We need to remember the story of Dionysos' punishment of the sacriligeous Pentheus: A King of Thebes (in Boiotia, Central Greece) who offended Dionysos with his blasphemies.
When the god was introducing his cult to Greece, Pentheus denied his divinity, tried to prevent his subjects from honouring him, and even went so far as to try to have him apprehended. But when he sought to spy upon the orgies on Mt Kithairon disguised as a woman, Dionysos drove the king's mother and aunts to tear him limb from limb (sparagmos):'Dionysos say: In the land of Hellas, I have first excited Thebes to my cry, fitting a fawn-skin to my body and taking a thyrsos in my hand, a weapon of ivy. I have goaded them the daughters of Kadmos from the house in frenzy, and they dwell in the mountains, out of their wits; and I have compelled them to wear the outfit of my mysteries (orgia). And all the female offspring of Thebes, as many as are women, I have driven maddened from the house, and they, mingled with the daughters of Kadmos, sit on roofless rocks beneath green pines. For this city must learn, even if it is unwilling, that it is not initiated into my Bakkheuma (Bacchic rites), and that I plead the case of my mother, Semele, in appearing manifest to mortals as a divinity whom she bore to Zeus.Now Kadmos has given his honor and power to Pentheus, his daughter's son, who fights against the gods as far as I am concerned and drives me away from sacrifices, and in his prayers makes no mention of me, for which I will show him and all the Thebans that I was born a god. And when I have set matters here right, I will move on to another land, revealing myself.
But if ever the city of Thebes should in anger seek to drive the the Bakkhai down from the mountains with arms, I, the general of the Mainaides, will join battle with them. On which account I have changed my form to a mortal one and altered my shape into the nature of a man'('Bacchae 25')'the sacriligeous Pentheus say:That one claims that Dionysos is a god, claims that he was once stitched into the thigh of Zeus - Dionysos, who was burnt up with his mother by the flame of lightning, because she had falsely claimed a marriage with Zeus. Is this not worthy of a terrible death by hanging, for a stranger to insult me with these insults, whoever he is?' - Euripides, Bacchae 215'The Chorus of Bakkhaisay: Go to the mountain, go, fleet hounds of Lyssa (Madness), where the daughters of Kadmos hold their company, and drive them raving against the mad spy on the Mainades, the one dressed in women's attire. His mother will be the first to see him from a smooth rock or crag, as he lies in ambush, and she will cry out to the maenads: 'Who is this seeker of the mountain-going Kadmeans who has come to the mountain, to the mountain, Bakkhai? Who bore him? After these and numerous other demonstrations, Dionysos became one of the 12 gods.I said this Dionysos, because there aren't different sources as to his origin, but on the contrary:'We have a number of Dionysoi.
The first the Orphic Zagreus is the son of Jupiter Zeus and Proserpine; the second the Egyptian Osiris of Nile - he is the fabled slayer of Nysa. The father of the third Phrygian Sabazios is Cabirus; it is stated that he was king over Asia, and the Sabazia were instituted in his honour. The fourth the Thraco-Orphic Sabazios is the son of Jupiter Thrakian sky-god and Luna Bendis; the Orphic rites are believed to be celebrated in his honour. The fifth the Theban Dionysos is the son of Nisus Zeus and Thyone Semele, and is believed to have established the Trieterid festival.' - Cicero, De Natura Deorum 3.21 - 3.23. If my statement 'Rudra is Dionysos' is unsubstantiated, then why you say this:No. Names are different but the Eko (The ONE) is one only.
That Rudra is same as Dionysius is a conjecture of Alan Danelieu (spelling may be wrong. I do not have enough time to check up). And in a enthusiast's mode, Alan rooted for victory of Dionysius. I say it is wrong.
The Brahman is not a part. Rudra is not a part. Upanishad sayseko hi rudro, dvittiya nasthu.The One is Rudra, there is no second.-In this light I ask for a citation of scripture as proof for your assertion: Its Dionysius (read Rudra) Versus the Crucified (The Last Man).I request again to pace yourself and consider that Brahman is partless. Similarly you will benefit from the understanding that Dionysius is EKO-ONE and has no one to overcome except himself.-Rudra is the Pragnya of Savitar, who exists because of Rudra yet Rudra in his various other manifestations abides by the rules of Savitar. This is how is Dionysius and Apollo. And Nietzsce highlighted this mutual interdependence.Note: In its highest form, Sanatana Dharma rejects both the Hegel's dialectism and Marx's Dialectism, without denying the relative truth of both of these in the relative worlds.But the Existence is One. The Cit is One.
Dionysus Children And Wife
The Bliss is One. Sat-Chit-Ananda is One. Nietzsche, I believe, was totally averse to this.
Dionysus Cult
He was imprisoned in the turmoil of Hegel's dialectics and yet his soul could not accept it, since he was tortured by inner sense that Dionysius and Apollo are One in Zeus.OmLast edited by atanu; 24 December 2008 at 01:36 AM.